想請教一下關於CREMA和PRESSO的事情 - 咖啡討論
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By Hamiltion
at 2010-06-14T17:02
at 2010-06-14T17:02
Table of Contents
※ 引述《zxcmnb (我的證照來自ㄊ大電腦)》之銘言:
: ※ 引述《hsubonbon (愛著妳...)》之銘言:
: : 才能回到25cc/30sec標準流速
: 一個在義大利傢伙到了紐約以後說
: 美國的espresso不是真正的espresso
: 美國人犯的最大的錯誤是在一杯single espresso上用了太多的咖啡粉
: 一杯真正的espresso需要7~8克的咖啡粉
: http://www.theatlantic.com/food/archive/2010/05/a-winning-formula-for-traditional-espresso/56621/
: 結果有個美國仔就在他的blog上反駁說這是義大利人的文化帝國主義
: 美國的標準是17.5~18.5克咖啡粉 1.5oz double ristretto
: http://godshot.blogspot.com/2010/05/cultural-imperialism.html
: http://godshot.blogspot.com/2010/06/italian-barista-champion-fights-back.html
: 其中美國仔還說了如下的話:
: I agree that a 1oz shot from a 20g dose is unlikely to yield
: a good flavor experience (not impossible, but unlikely).
: 這邊想請問一下h大, 15g~18g咖啡粉, 20~30cc這個標準是從哪裡來的?
來自固定壓力下改變粉量
自single shot的7,8g到double shot的15~18g
流速會從30sec大於50cc下降到約30sec 25~30cc
而creama量隨著流速下降成反比增加
而與口感直接相關的body
也從稀薄如水到接近融化巧克力般厚實
透過透明的ounce杯觀察
整杯皆是深咖啡色的creama
而single shot粉量煮出同樣份量的咖啡
則多為黑色咖啡
僅有表層有cream存在
接著再固定粉量16g
改變壓力自10Bar下降到6Bar
接取的咖啡量則固定在約1oz (25~30cc)
Creama隨著壓力下降成正比下降
口感也隨壓力下降而不再"solid"
豆子則同為煌鼎的配方豆"卡不里不里"
這是我五六年前常用的條件
試過各類豆子
有適當的研磨刻度的話
條件不會相差太多
實驗結果與Illy咖啡老闆發表在Scientific American的文章結論一致
30sec 25~30cc的口感與creama十分厚實
另外
20g我當時也試過
流速過慢
若要硬加壓(>10Bar)讓流速增加的話
粉餅被衝破的機率很高
而熱水順著破口集中沖刷而出
常會產生過萃的苦澀
且無益於creama與口感的提升
故
6Bar<壓力<9Bar 流速30sec25~30cc
是trade-off下的安全條件
: 看起來美國人和義大利人都不是這煮的
Illy貌似義大利人
Scientific American則為美國期刊
應該還是有義大利人和美國人這樣煮啦~
: h大能把這種濃縮再濃縮的劑量煮得好
: 想必應該是有自己的獨到之處囉?
有時候就是怕自己的口味太"獨到"
這時就一定得跟別人求教
討論身邊同好的經驗的話
我跟我現在工作的實驗室經理講以上沖煮條件
他說他也用一樣的條件
豆子則同為我烘的深焙豆
得到的現象一致
真巧!
他也是美國人
討論區的文章多看有益
也代表個人的求知慾旺盛
絕對是好事!
不過有疑問的話
還是自己動手最快也最可靠
數據與現象說話
純靠個人喜好有其極限
有數字參考會比較好討論
因為可以試著重覆對方的條件
這樣大家可在同一個基準上說話
有共識後
再討論個人喜好以及個人參數所表現的不同風味
我認為這樣比較有討論的基礎
--
: ※ 引述《hsubonbon (愛著妳...)》之銘言:
: : 才能回到25cc/30sec標準流速
: 一個在義大利傢伙到了紐約以後說
: 美國的espresso不是真正的espresso
: 美國人犯的最大的錯誤是在一杯single espresso上用了太多的咖啡粉
: 一杯真正的espresso需要7~8克的咖啡粉
: http://www.theatlantic.com/food/archive/2010/05/a-winning-formula-for-traditional-espresso/56621/
: 結果有個美國仔就在他的blog上反駁說這是義大利人的文化帝國主義
: 美國的標準是17.5~18.5克咖啡粉 1.5oz double ristretto
: http://godshot.blogspot.com/2010/05/cultural-imperialism.html
: http://godshot.blogspot.com/2010/06/italian-barista-champion-fights-back.html
: 其中美國仔還說了如下的話:
: I agree that a 1oz shot from a 20g dose is unlikely to yield
: a good flavor experience (not impossible, but unlikely).
: 這邊想請問一下h大, 15g~18g咖啡粉, 20~30cc這個標準是從哪裡來的?
來自固定壓力下改變粉量
自single shot的7,8g到double shot的15~18g
流速會從30sec大於50cc下降到約30sec 25~30cc
而creama量隨著流速下降成反比增加
而與口感直接相關的body
也從稀薄如水到接近融化巧克力般厚實
透過透明的ounce杯觀察
整杯皆是深咖啡色的creama
而single shot粉量煮出同樣份量的咖啡
則多為黑色咖啡
僅有表層有cream存在
接著再固定粉量16g
改變壓力自10Bar下降到6Bar
接取的咖啡量則固定在約1oz (25~30cc)
Creama隨著壓力下降成正比下降
口感也隨壓力下降而不再"solid"
豆子則同為煌鼎的配方豆"卡不里不里"
這是我五六年前常用的條件
試過各類豆子
有適當的研磨刻度的話
條件不會相差太多
實驗結果與Illy咖啡老闆發表在Scientific American的文章結論一致
30sec 25~30cc的口感與creama十分厚實
另外
20g我當時也試過
流速過慢
若要硬加壓(>10Bar)讓流速增加的話
粉餅被衝破的機率很高
而熱水順著破口集中沖刷而出
常會產生過萃的苦澀
且無益於creama與口感的提升
故
6Bar<壓力<9Bar 流速30sec25~30cc
是trade-off下的安全條件
: 看起來美國人和義大利人都不是這煮的
Illy貌似義大利人
Scientific American則為美國期刊
應該還是有義大利人和美國人這樣煮啦~
: h大能把這種濃縮再濃縮的劑量煮得好
: 想必應該是有自己的獨到之處囉?
有時候就是怕自己的口味太"獨到"
這時就一定得跟別人求教
討論身邊同好的經驗的話
我跟我現在工作的實驗室經理講以上沖煮條件
他說他也用一樣的條件
豆子則同為我烘的深焙豆
得到的現象一致
真巧!
他也是美國人
討論區的文章多看有益
也代表個人的求知慾旺盛
絕對是好事!
不過有疑問的話
還是自己動手最快也最可靠
數據與現象說話
純靠個人喜好有其極限
有數字參考會比較好討論
因為可以試著重覆對方的條件
這樣大家可在同一個基準上說話
有共識後
再討論個人喜好以及個人參數所表現的不同風味
我認為這樣比較有討論的基礎
--
Tags:
咖啡
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at 2010-10-14T15:22
at 2010-10-14T15:22
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By Catherine
at 2010-10-16T12:45
at 2010-10-16T12:45
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By Hardy
at 2010-10-17T11:28
at 2010-10-17T11:28
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By Suhail Hany
at 2010-10-21T16:04
at 2010-10-21T16:04
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By Olga
at 2010-10-24T05:41
at 2010-10-24T05:41
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at 2010-06-14T13:12
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at 2010-06-13T23:28
at 2010-06-13T23:28
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at 2010-06-13T19:49
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By Irma
at 2010-06-13T18:06
at 2010-06-13T18:06